Is everyone clear on TTWD?? I know for a long time I had no clue.... finally felt safe enough with a submissive friend to ask....... "These Things We Do" ....... sort of like a big HUGE umbrella to tuck us all under............. cause there are so many different shapes sizes and styles in BDSM.
Around blog land these days .. we have DD and HOH and maybe even 50's household. We have D/s and S/m and Daddy/little girl. ok so who did I miss??
A long time ago it was very important to me to have a label. After all how can you fit in (or be accepted in some cases) if you don't know who/what you are?? I identified as submissive - maybe even slave on a good day. I am by nature submissive (raised to be submissive - talk about nurture versus nature) -- and have a strong BURNING desire to serve .. .to please.
But interesting fact here....... at munches or meetings I was often seen as Dominant. You have no idea how many male submissives approached me to play....... le sigh...
I did try - more than once - but it just isn't in me. And doming is exhausting!! and a lot of work.... it was so much easier to kneel at someone's feet and let them do all the work.
BUT - I was more than submissive. I was a masochist. And that desire for pain drove me stronger than any desire to serve. For a long time I didn't talk about it - was ashamed maybe? of my masochism. AND in the community I was in - masochism was not valued as much as submissive or slave.
Then I met Sir Steve ....... he was a Sadist.... other submissives whispered about him.. he was a S A D I S T -- that made him scary...... oh and he did look scary and intimidating in his leathers with his cover on.......... I remember being mesmerized by him.... (and yeah - he was HOT in my books and made my knees go weak)
And when we played ....... OMG it was heaven!! I had finally met my match... The Sadist and the masochist - a match made in heaven.
BUT I didn't understand why he didn't want me to kneel - or to serve. Once the play was over he wanted me sitting beside him - standing beside him - an equal ? that was very confusing to me. I figured it was because I was NOT his submissive...
Fast forward to 4 years ago when we started to renew our friendship. I figured "YAY!! I get a Sadist and a Dominant" Was I wrong!! Sir Steve is dominant yes... but he isn't looking to dominate anyone. When we aren't playing he wants a partner.
A long time ago I read a description of each of the types of BDSM relationships.. long ago and far away - so of course I can't find it now. BUT I do remember skimming over the S/m relationship. IF memory serves me right - S/m relationships are different from the other forms because for the most part both partners are considered equal - only when it comes to 'playing' do the roles manifest themselves. And they play to satisfy each person's need for pain - either giving or receiving.
I still have a very strong need to please and be pleasing.... but we're working on releasing my spirit and letting it fly. I am slowly learning I do not HAVE to serve Sir Steve - I fulfill him with my masochism. IF I want to serve him that's my choice! not his demand.
Life is good when your TTWD is a perfect fit.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting post! Sounds like you’ve found your niche whatever it’s called. I like being under the TTWD umbrella. I feel a part of something special and outside the vanilla world. But I don’t have a name for it at all. Spanko, yes, for me that’s a given but while I dream about being a submissive, Nick just does NOT want that. He’d drag himself out of a sick bed to get his own aspirin with me standing there asking what he needs! Frustrating! (He will let me bring him something if the cat is on his lap, so she won’t be disturbed.) It’s hard for me to want to give the gift of submission to someone who simply doesn’t want it. If I’m honest I probably wouldn’t have been that great at being submissive, but I would have liked to try.
Sounds like you all are making it work for you two and that’s all that counts.
PK - I get how difficult it is to give the gift of submission if he doesn't want it!! BUT if things -as they are - work for you then enjoy... it's honestly not worth stressing over I did that for too many years ......
DeleteBeautiful. I think it's great when you find that your partner fits you, in whatever way you think is RIGHT for you. All those labels can help, but they're not the be all and end all. I found them helpful at the beginning to figure out what i was, what i wanted.. but along the way we've made TTWD our own. And that makes it special!
ReplyDeleteat the beginning - that's the thing at the beginning I so wanted to fit in... I was like this giddy teenager for goodness sakes... now I have grown into my reality I guess - oh maybe I have found a pair of shoes that fit and are very comfortable !!
DeleteI love reading about your relationship with BIKSS - it sounds very comfortable :)
Windy - I didn't know that the blog list on everyone's blogs are updated by the RSS feeder thing........ le sigh ... I learn something new every day ...
ReplyDeletenow I won't have to bug you anymore LOL .. thanks!!
Windy - when you said "I 'aint ever gonna figure out where I fit" I smiled - and remembered eldest daughter at the age of 15 or so asking me "WHEN will I know what I want to be?" such angst!! I told her - look at me.... I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up"..........
ReplyDeleteI think it's perfectly ok to keep redefining oneself - until you find the perfect fit - no matter how long that takes........ and if you never find the fit?? what fun you'll have trying them all out..... (you being generic! not necessarily meaning YOU you )
There are many flavors to be sure. And some are minor and others significant. And then there's overlap too. Rosa and I are certainly BDSM-D/s, and started that way. She is a "small "s" sadist" and I am a masochist with certain submissive tendencies.....though they are not pervasive. When she moved in we became DD. THAT was a big step for me because I have done DD all my life but it was never as stringent as it became with Rosa. She is very comfortable being in charge, though she also doesn't try to control everything. Our DD is more about domestic harmony.
ReplyDeleteBut DD is a definite BIG difference for TTWD, while other aspects of us are not as big a difference from most others.
kd - I'm trying to fully understand what you wrote.. you said 'some are minor and others significant' I assume you are talking about in the general community? or in your relationship? what would you consider minor? and significant?
DeleteHow is DD a big difference for TTWD??
Good questions, and you are right, I was writing in haste and was not terribly clear. (You once teased me about having a Dom in me somewhere, but now the teacher in you is coming out. LOL)
DeleteI meant in the community from a logical perspective. Like in consensual BDSM the dynamic is pretty set for scene play, so if the scene is spanking, or wax play there's not much different besides having to melt wax or buys candles. The two scenes would still play out similarly. But like you said, submission and service is a different thing than mutual sensation play. It requires a certain personality. I once Topped a lovely lady who could take one HELL of a beating and still want more, but god forbid I asked her to submit to my whim or serve me! Meanwhile you have folks eager to serve but reluctant to get hit. LOL So, there are preferences that don't require much more than a different set of toys and the desire to use them, and dynamics which are much more dependent on psyches.
DD is very much like that. There is even a degree of prejudice against DD in some circles, even a disdain of sorts. ( "What do you mean you let your spouse punish you? They have no right and you should have more self-respect! Sure if it's agreed-upon PLAY, then fine, but to get spanked for some misbehavior like a child?!?!?") Or some such objection to that effect.
It seems a LOT of kinky people can accept almost anything if it's consensual PLAY. But make it real with someone in charge, focus on real issues like shirking a chore instead of play-acted role play like the teacher who spanks the student for not doing homework, and support thins. Also, for someone to choose to live in DD takes a mindset.....which is why Dan runs a kind of "support group" type blog specifically for DD (particularly F/m) couples.
So if you say "I like spanking" under the umbrella of TTWD, there are very big differences in what is required for a successful play-spanking relationship, and a 24/7 DD one. Kind of like scene spankers versus Master/slave relationships, which are closer to DD but still a bit different....since the slave can be punished for a whim of their Master but in DD there is a kind of agreement that there be some genuine reason.....even if the reason is role affirmation. So the line gets fuzzy but it's there to a degree.
kd
Deleteyou said "consensual BDSM the dynamic is pretty set for scene play"
Are you saying that consent is only necessary when negotiating a scene play??
you said " if it's consensual PLAY. But make it real with someone in charge,"
but you didn't finish that statement. Are you implying that anything 'real' is not consensual?
you said " I like spanking" under the umbrella of TTWD, there are very big differences in what is required for a successful play-spanking relationship, and a 24/7 DD one"
are you saying that DD is more real than just spanking? or more real than an S/m relationship?
In fact are you saying that the only "real" relationship is a DD one??
You have me a little confused - so let's straighten me out......
OK now I'm confused. LOL
Delete>>>>you said "consensual BDSM the dynamic is pretty set for scene play. Are you saying that consent is only necessary when negotiating a scene play??<<<
No, not at all. Where did I say that even remotely? That paragraph doesn't even address consent. But since you brought it up, to be clear, I am of the belief that even DD's popular "nonconsensual consent" or "prior consent" is an illusion. If you are an adult who is not being illegally held as a slave in some foreign dungeon, anything you do reeks of consent.
>>>>>you said " if it's consensual PLAY. But make it real with someone in charge,"
but you didn't finish that statement.<<<<<<
I said: "But make it real with someone in charge, focus on real issues like shirking a chore instead of play-acted role play like the teacher who spanks the student for not doing homework, and support thins." I checked. The sentence is there.
>>>>Are you implying that anything 'real' is not consensual?<<<<<
No I used "consensual BDSM" in the same way someone would say, "democratic election". I'm saying more than a few scene play spankers have regarded F/m DD with disdain, and M/f DD with horror. Sometimes it's more subtle, but it is out there. Nothing in that paragraph deals with consent. In fact, I didn't even address consent except as a descriptor in my entire comment. Once for BDSM and once for play.
>>>>>>you said " I like spanking" under the umbrella of TTWD, there are very big differences in what is required for a successful play-spanking relationship, and a 24/7 DD one"
are you saying that DD is more real than just spanking? or more real than an S/m relationship?
In fact are you saying that the only "real" relationship is a DD one??<<<<<<
to be continued
DeleteNo. Where did I imply that? I didn't even use the word 'real' in that paragraph. But if you want to ask about where I did use it, it was with regard to spanking in DD. But I never used "real" in the sense that only DD has flesh and blood people and everyone else is a fictional illusion, but "real" in that for a role-player, the reason for the spanking is often concocted. The teacher who spanks the lazy student for "not having their homework" when there is no homework. It's pretend homework. Hence "not real". Sensation players might not even pretend a reason and just do it as sensation. But if you look at spanking as ostensibly an activity rooted in punitive origins, seeking sensation is not as authentic in that regard ( or 'real') as when it is used punitively and for a genuine misbehavior.
I have no idea where you are getting any connection from me on "real" and "relationships". Where did I say that or even imply it? That entire paragraph is all about the degree to which different preferences necessitate either very minor adjustments, as in the case described in my second paragraph, or major differences in the essential nature of a person to accommodate significant variations in what the relationship will be.
Rosa and I engage in various forms of spanking. Mostly either "play" or "real". Play ones rarely have any sort of genuine reason, but since Rosa likes reasons even for play, sometimes we stretch some minor thing to make it seem "spankworthy" but it's not truly "real". It's a game. Upsetting her is "real" and the consequences for that are then a "real" spanking. Not that the play one doesn't hurt, or takes place in our minds, or doesn't require effort. It just isn't rooted in correcting behavior the way a mom or dad used to back in the old days. And I don't know of any kid who sought out a punishment from their parents for the sensation of it. Adults do that for their own reasons. And they engage in BDSM spankings. But adults in DD, consent to revert a bit back to the former use of the activity.....as something not so pleasant, or playful, but as a deterrent.
Let me ask you a few questions that may help: were you spanked as a kid? If so, did you enjoy it? When you get spanked now, do you enjoy it?
This might get us in sync on DD versus BDSM.
kd - I am thinking it is difficult to have a discussion re just the written word....
DeleteI understand you are saying a punishment spanking is real - compared to a play spanking. but trust me when I say - any spanking I get is very real - and I have the bruises for days afterwards to prove it.
You might not like this - but I don't see DD versus BDSM - to me DD IS BDSM - as is HOH or D/s or M/s.
As for your questions - I was not spanked as a child...
As for being spanked now - I enjoy the pain... but the process to get to the enjoyment can be difficult.
I guess it's time to move on to another topic :)
I agree DD is a subset of BDSM. In fact I have always said that F/m DD is a subset of a subset of a subset of BDSM or TTWD. And I agree, I feel like a conversation might be less prone to misinterpretation, but this is the medium we have. LOL
DeleteAs for your answers to my questions..... I too 'enjoy' a play spanking even if it remains challenging. But I don't enjoy a punishment. Rosa does from her end to a degree because she is using it as a way back to a clean slate. And she is getting her frustrations out. Submitting to something painful that is not enjoyable, as a sincerely intended punishment for sometimes very gritty personal issues, requires a different mindset in a person....to what I think is a significant degree. It doesn't make it better, worse, sick, or ideal. And that's all I was saying.
I think the word "real" got in the way, but while your point is valid, the use of 'real' is admittedly simultaneously accurate and inaccurate depending on what aspect the adjective is describing.
We can move on but I thought it better to end on a clear note. ;-)
I'll be back later to comment from my computer concerning us, but I wanted to make a suggestion for Windy. Our middle son came out to us when he was about 17, though his coming out wasn't typical (even my gay beast friend was like...hmmm?) ,But it's his story and he's writing it so we support his discovery. A year, maybe 2 later he said he believed he was Asexual. Okay. Once again, gay friend "Hmmm." Gay friend wanted to know why he was in such a rush to label himself ( I had to remind gay friend what it was like to be young and discovering yourself). Gay friend suggested (and ehat I am going to suggest we adopt here) is that our son use the term fluid. It doesn't matter what others define you as but what you need to see yourself as. If you see yourself as fluid, in this case, you can leave your mind empty and your heart open to accept who you really are. 💕
ReplyDeletewillie - that has to be the BEST definition of 'fluid' I have ever read!! makes much more sense to me now :)
ReplyDeleteI have never had a long term kinky partner but the S/m dynamic sounds good to me. I only like to be submissive when playing. Sounds like you have a good thing going on there
ReplyDeletePrefectdt
This is so us. I am a masochist and not really very submissive and Ty is a sadist and he is dominant but not a dominant. You explained it so much better than I can. But yes, I get it.
ReplyDeleteWOW - and here I thought we were unique - odd balls?? (grinning)
DeleteHi Morningstar, I enjoyed reading this post about what works for you and Sir Steve and happy you have found what works for you both.
ReplyDeleteI also early on found labels helpful in trying to define us and where we fit, but I think a lot of us are a mixture of different elements. We have had elements of D/s, DD and Daddy/little over the years. The interesting thing is that although we haven't had an active dynamic for some time many thing and also benefits of ttwd remain.
We do play occassionally and this is the only time our Dominant/submissive sides emerge.
Hugs
Roz
Roz - there are most definitely ebbs and flows in any relationship -- and it is difficult I think to maintain the TTWD as 1) we get older and have new health issues 2) and perhaps? not sure - the need lessens as we grow older ?? or maybe it is more that it lessens as the newness wears off?? (probably not explaining this well)
DeleteI think the most important thing is that the love between us is strong :)
Good morning Mornigstar, I see I'm not the only one up before the birds in this snow covered country of ours! lol
ReplyDeleteI have to confess I was a tad confused when I first read this, not because of what YOU wrote but because of what *I* read. I'll just blame my dyslexia. I read M/s ( as in Master/slave) not S/m ( as in Sadomasochism), so in my mind I was confused how M/s the partners are considered equal. LMAO.
I don't know if I am going to muddy the waters a bit more with what Kd and you are talking about, but maybe I can help with woman speak. LOL
As you know B and I came at this from a Dd perspective initially. As I've said on other blogs, Dd is reactionary, punitive- after a while that sort of stalls because you just stop doing that which upsets your partner ( unless of course it is emotionally driven). We then evolved more into D/s rules and protocols which also has a punitive aspect here. But the punitive part is merely a tool to keep the mindsets where they need to be. In my case I'd say the heartset. I am *a* submissive, and as part of my toolkit I do serve, but that is just who I am. I know plenty of submissives who don't, because their Dom's don't wish it. Now B is a small 's' Sadist. So there are times where he just beats me because he can. It isn't about a reset, ( though it works that way often for me because I am not a masochist and I am submitting for is pleasure alone). Is it play? It is for him. For me? well there is no emotional undertones before starting the beating, like there would be if it was punitive. That is the huge difference between Dd and play. Yes, there are things I mentally have to get over perhaps during his play time, and emotions surrounding that, but generally speaking there are no negative emotions, ( guilt, resentment, anger, sorrow). Do I feel emotionally connected to B after he 'plays'? Absolutely. Do I after he punishes? Meh- sometimes, depending on the emotional state I am in. Does he feel great after he plays, oh yes! Does he after a punishment? Also depends. Sometimes he's very angry that I have 'forced' his hand. He loves to cause me physical pain, but he likes to choose it, not reacting to my actions. So sometimes he's pissed off that instead of a less 'serious' situation, and I do mean emotionally, he has to correct.
Does that make any sense as to the difference between Dd spanking/beatings and BDSM play? Both have emotional implications for sure, but *for me* the former has an added few prior to the physical.
I understand what you are saying willie -- maybe it's my 'history' where folks would rate BDSM relationships - saying Master/slave was better than Dominant/submissive and definitely better than Sadist/masochist. That attitude bugs me ... I don't believe in classifying anyone... seems elitist ... and just a bit exclusive rather than inclusive.
Deletemaybe it's one of my 'triggers'.. I don't like excluding anyone.....
Okay now that I have whatever that was out of my head. LOL. I can comment about how I may differ, if I may.
ReplyDeleteI am a submissive, but not a masochist. It's funny how our perception of self and how people see us changes due to our surroundings. You said that ( or maybe implied) that as a masochist, you felt or were looked down on by submissives? I find that in society as a whole, submissives are looked down upon as flawed. It's okay to have a kink that is pain- based ( I mean I know that is a huge leap because a lot of people don't accept kink period) but to yield to another? OMG! lol Even in this community. I do not see myself as 'not equal' to B, nor does he see me as not his equal. We are just different. For me his 'demands' are more about me than him. He is fulfilling my need to serve and please. He does like being in control, but it's a lot more work for him than it is for me to not be. By him taking control from me/of me, it shows me he accepts me for who I am and will not tolerate me not being authentic to myself. Which for us is huge because often I cannot accept myself at times.
It isn't perfect, especially lately, but like you said finding the right person, makes all the difference.
willie
I come from a "old guard" mentality in Montreal. It was unspoken but definitely known there was a hierarchy - Slaves at the top... submissives under them... bottoms under them .... and masochists were ...... well ... lower than low for the most part.
Deletethe whole point to this blog was answering a question I think you asked me - what our relationship looked like... LOL... and perhaps I didn't do a good job...... le sigh .. .just wanted to be inclusive ....
D. and I were (in hindsight) in a very classical D/s relationship from the get go (keeping in mind, i was 16, he was 19)- but with a lot kept under wraps for many years. We were in our 30s before we "named" it and then explored even further and had quite a few years where it was blissful. Like you, there was a learning curve - being submissive does not mean being a door mat and being dominant does NOT mean you get to do what the hell you want without reciprocation but we struggled through until e had a pretty amazing balance for quite a few years. Like you, very few people realize I am at heart, a submissive - and D. used to get a real charge about people believing I wore the pants in the family LOL - his ego and self-confidence was enough that it didn't bother him and he secretly found it hilarious. I am, my nature, a take charge person - never dealt well under a supervisor/boss that didn't just step back and let me at it (which I was fortunate in that they did and benefitted from it)- ran my home with kids, animals, volunteer work, fulltime work etc like a well oiled machine and D. NEVER had to worry about anything. When we imploded 12 years ago it was brutal as not only was there was the shredding of the relationship but it upset the whole apple cart.
ReplyDeleteI was super happy for you when you found your Sir and have enjoyed watching your relationship deepen and build!
hi selkie :) :)
DeleteI remember your relationship - well what I read about it - and I also remember how devastated I was when it imploded.......
I am glad you are still visiting here.. who knows we may meet again one day for coffee and a long 'catch up' conversation :)
I value your input - probably more than you know.. both on here and on FB :)
Hi Morningstar,
ReplyDeleteI always think that it is an every growing living thing....what might start as DD/TTWD might evolve into a full M/s situation as the couple grows.
I find labels very limiting. You might be DD but who is to say you aren't D/s as well? If there is no label, it is simply you and your partner living your life the way that you can, anyway you can.
Hugs
Boo
Boo - to be perfectly honest I don't like labels - cause as willie said things are fluid and what is a label today may not be the same tomorrow ya know??
DeleteMy label should read - just me as is a work in progress (grinning)